Electoral Fallout for Obamacare

[babe]

Originally Posted by Darwin

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. My argument isn't philosophical. I'll posit the high ground to you on this one. The core of my argument is that it's not a problem when Uncle Ned and Aunt Sally use the facilities in an outhouse back on the farm. That's not practical for 1.6 million people in the 23 square miles of Manhattan. That wouldn't even work in Salt Lake City.

With 308 million Americans the infrastructure requirements are significantly different. Vast portions of the West would be uninhabitable without dams built by the federal government. The federal land grants to the railroads were equally important in colonizing the West. It wasn't any of the individual states that consummated the Louisiana Purchase or the acquisition of Alaska. That was federal land (or Indian, as you wish) that the Sooners snuck across the line to claim. The founding fathers certainly didn't have the interstate (toll free) highway system in mind in 1787. They couldn't have imagined the need to coordinate thousands of passenger jets on a daily basis flying all over the country.

Individual banks used to print their own currency. The value of that currency declined in proportion to the distance from a branch. A note from a bank in Nashville would probably be honored at face value in Cooksville, but by the time you got to Chattanooga it was being discounted. That's hardly an efficient method to conduct interstate commerce much less international commerce.

I appreciate the need for NIST (physical standards bureau), the CDC, NASA, rural electrification and the GI Bill. Do we let states in the name of state's rights who are upstream, dump pollutants into rivers and make the downstream states live with it? If you had to depend on the business-at-all-costs sycophants in the Utah legislature for clean air and water you'd be in trouble. Should states have the leeway to re-institute slavery?

It wasn't that long ago that the national motto was E Pluribus Unum. Today we have to settle for In God we Trust.

Again, I like this response. Very well reasoned and concisely stated.

A couple of years ago I was approached by the Constitution party and asked to run for office, which I did. I put $16 bucks into the campaign, and responded to various interested citizens and groups, made the news once, and got about 400 votes, all without ever attending any party meeting or event. . . .

Before that I tried to interest some Utahns in Lyndon LaRouche, and read a lot of the EIR issues then, along with Fidelio and their technology magazines. LaRouche loves FDR as the best president ever, and tells some interesting stories.

My favorite is about a conversation between FDR and Churchill in regard to ending imperialism. At FDR's suggestion that India should be given independence, Churchill snorted that they could never govern themselves, with all their local antipathies, religious conflicts, and inept leadership. . . . to which FDR replied that the British had once entertained all of these notions in regard to the American colonies.

LaRouche runs a top-down little movement where you get little chance to influence the direction, a lot like the John Birch Society, Eagle Forum, or CWA, as I view it I don't think they act as anything like an American representative democracy or republic. The "third parties" choices we have are all pretty much the same, and I think that limits their validity. But I find the major parties so very controlled from the top that I don't think they can serve us well either.

What I'd like to see is a lot of people getting active, and producing some good ideas, and getting in the faces of our representatives and making enough noise to command respect even from the "oligarchs".

Reasonable people with sound thinking. . . . .

In regard to the various important activities we have consigned to the public sector, I agree with you. This is OUR government, and if we want the government to do these things, let's all pitch in and help to make sure it serves US well. I don't like the idea of private highways or jails any more than I like the idea of the government being set to serve a few elites instead of us.

I recognize that a lot of "problems" could be best solved in a free market fashion, with perhaps some oversight from the gov, such as zoning regulations, ordinances directed at pollution and maintenance of natural resources, recreation areas, wildlife, and many many other aspects of our lives or world.

However, if we want our Federal gov to undertake enterprises or assume powers not explicitly granted in the Constitution as it stands today, I think we do need to follow the amendment process faithfully, and not do some Executive Order, Administrative Court order, or even legislation as a shortcut for "efficiency".

And the Fed gov doesn't have to do everything. We should look to state and local gov to do as much as they can within their jurisdictions.

As I have studied natural systems of various kinds, including a huge number of oddball species in special niches, I have concluded that nature, or "God", has designed a system that does not depend on uniformity for survival. In fact, the survival of life on this planet is probably due to the freedom inherent in all creatures to adopt new strategies for current challenges, either by "evolution" or design.

I'd like to see us humans get smart enough to include allowance for diverse survival strategies. Individual choices, individual responsibilities. . . . as much as possible, without excluding intelligent applications of organized society either. . . .

At any rate, I'm in here hoping to learn a few things from others, and I appreciate those who take the time to think and respond to some of my posts.

[DavidW]

Originally Posted by Jib-Jab

Just a sad person who enjoys ridiculing others for your own purposes. You don't bother to read the references that I provided, nor do you respond to the arguments that I post with anything but ridicule.

So, sad DavidW; I'm done with you. Enjoy yourself.

Gosh, you mean the excerpts you put in bold weren't intended to supposedly support your totally unsupportable assertion? At least the BeBe knew how to bow out dramatically.

[shelley_utahjazzfan]

Originally Posted by JoeNormal

Families should be limited in size. Homes should be limited in size. Cars should be limited in size. The wealthiest in our society should be taxed at a high rate. Utilites and municipalities should charge/tax at a rate that allows real, sustainable maintenance and replacement of our infrastructure rather than a just-get-by, band-aid approach. The grow or die mentality needs to be changed.

I don't want to live in JNormal's Kingdom.

[shelley_utahjazzfan]

Originally Posted by DLoftus

another Blackberry

I know Blackberry and JWeeks is no Blackberry.

Blackberry is one of a kind original.

[shelley_utahjazzfan]

Originally Posted by DLoftus

Yikes! Even shelley may be turning away.

I'm a fan of both very different men.

[babe]

I play around in here and sometimes even I chuckle at myself. . . . but JWeeks/Jwhatever can be counted on for having a reasonable view and staying somewhat "normal" by the standards of Utah's "mainstream".

Most TT community organizers are not anywhere near "normal" by that set of norms. I have a short list of suspected agenda monkeys. . . . and the rest of you are just fun to read because you are NOT normal. . . .

If we didn't have a JWeeks this place would not be credible as belonging to a Utah news/opinion organization.

And considering the number of real Janadeles that DO live in Utah, it's a loss we don't have a few more Janadeles showing up in here.

I know some of you don't want that kind of variety allowed in public forums, but I think those of you who can't tolerate it are basically control freaks.

Who complain about a "control freak" local religion 'bout these parts.

And I'd guess JWeeks might feel like getting back to work again. . . . or maybe just putting some hecklers on "ignore" for a while, but most likely isn't checking out. . . .

After all, intellectual mud-wrestling in TTland is a fascinating sport. . . .

[shelley_utahjazzfan]

Originally Posted by babe

I play around in here and sometimes even I chuckle at myself. . . . but JWeeks/Jwhatever can be counted on for having a reasonable view and staying somewhat "normal" by the standards of Utah's "mainstream".

Most TT community organizers are not anywhere near "normal" by that set of norms. I have a short list of suspected agenda monkeys. . . . and the rest of you are just fun to read because you are NOT normal. . . .

If we didn't have a JWeeks this place would not be credible as belonging to a Utah news/opinion organization.

And considering the number of real Janadeles that DO live in Utah, it's a loss we don't have a few more Janadeles showing up in here.

I know some of you don't want that kind of variety allowed in public forums, but I think those of you who can't tolerate it are basically control freaks.

Who complain about a "control freak" local religion 'bout these parts.

And I'd guess JWeeks might feel like getting back to work again. . . . or maybe just putting some hecklers on "ignore" for a while, but most likely isn't checking out. . . .

After all, intellectual mud-wrestling in TTland is a fascinating sport. . . .

I love how you wrap things up like a pig in a warm fuzzy blanket.

[DavidW]

Originally Posted by babe

And I'd guess JWeeks might feel like getting back to work again. . . . or maybe just putting some hecklers on "ignore" for a while, but most likely isn't checking out. . . .

You think the 18-hour-a-day sacrifice Jehosophat makes for us all by posting here isn't actually work?

[babe]

Originally Posted by DavidW

You think the 18-hour-a-day sacrifice Jehosophat makes for us all by posting here isn't actually work?

Well, I will admit that if his wife is anything like mine, he does have a price to pay for his "fun" in TTland.

I'm just hoping that some moneybag-hauling agenda-pusher outfit will decide to pay him for his work, just so he can buy some candy bars to keep his sugar levels up, and once a week can take a break and go see a movie or a Jazz game sometime. Don't you think it'd be great to get paid for doing this????

I bet he gets elected for some Utah office this year. Then we will have to make up for his reduced participation in TTland, somehow. Or maybe we'll just naturally have MORE to talk about . . . .

[babe]

Originally Posted by shelley_utahjazzfan

I love how you wrap things up like a pig in a warm fuzzy blanket.

....oink!